Curse

Xiaquin · Mar 23, 2011, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

None of that is content. The "game" portion of the game has never truly been affected like this outside of campaigns. Just seems like a drift from the felt values portrayed by the game and staff.

I can justify campaign advantages. I just can't justify a cash shop item adding that much of an advantage to the game.

If they made GW: Utopia (or whatever the next campaign was to be) and included MH, I would feel no different. If the only way to get it was to use the online store, I'm sure there would be similar calls that it's a cash shop advantage. But is it really the campaign that's different or the idea of downloading it directly?

I understand there's a value to uphold, but I agree with Stumme. It's not adding anything out of bounds, it just came with no content. Is the advantage only justified when one needs to complete quests or title grind? In both scenarios one has to pay to have, the latter simply requires game play.

Is it fair to say that we can have advantages as long as we are willing to do in-game work to earn them? And if so, does owning more campaigns automatically make that easier, because advantages will scale up and make earning the next batch even easier?

We could go for months spinning in these circles. This is my last post and my final thoughts here. I urge we push for profession updates that will be in the best interest of all players, rather than take shots at each other, and we'll all be happier.

X Dr Pepper X · Mar 23, 2011, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessyang

yep some have accepted this and moved on. they are still playing/paying/put-up-with-it or have left.

Anet is not going to step backwards. why would they? Only forward . Those who want to follow and play the new game/content hop on board.

ANet can easily choose to stick to their old philosophy of not selling in game advantages and continue to fund the game with microtransactions.

They chose not to.

Gli · Mar 23, 2011, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

b) solid game content offers no substantial advantage but more variety & choices, as in previous games

Your Nightfall heroes don't offer substantial advantages in Prophecies content? Your EotN consumables don't work in Factions?

inscribed · Mar 23, 2011, 09:13 PM // 21:13

I think many forum goers are just looking for a reason to be upset. Guild Wars is a great game and the folks at ArenaNet are doing a great job keeping things fresh and adding new content. I probably won't buy merc heroes myself but not every thing they release has to be a hit with me, just as long as they keep releasing stuff.

*lemming* · Mar 23, 2011, 09:18 PM // 21:18

I'd be completely happy if my apprehensions about the direction of Anet's microtransactions were proven wrong.

Karate Jesus · Mar 23, 2011, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

I don't have a screen shot atm, but doing FoW with 7 heroes is very doable in under 2 hours. In fact, the average time is about 1.5 hours as near as I can tell. (I recently did my survivor title the "long" way by doing 10 FoW trips and the titan quests.

I probably should have clarified....

I meant in HM. The screenshotted run with Mercenary Heroes is in HM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

It has been answered numerous times.....It goes against the entire philosophy that GW was based on.

Yup. Anet is supposedly anti-grinding in general, not just anti-grinding when it benefits their bottom line.

Or so I thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Well if they continue down this road I won't be purchasing GW2. I may only be one lost customer, but I am pretty sure there are a lot of others like me. The player base/customers are part of what made/makes GW great. The *og philosophy is a reason that attracted a certain type of players to create a unique community.

Same here. I decided not to get GW2 a few months back. I'm still active in the community because I have so many ties to it, but when my guild and friends move to GW2, I'll probably be done.

If I wanted to play a generic MMO made by greedy sums-o'-biatches, I would play a Blizzard game. I'm probably just going to look into ToR, D3, or maybe even jump into WoW. For now, I'll stick with console games until I find another MMO that I like.

enter_the_zone · Mar 23, 2011, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Yup. Anet is supposedly anti-grinding in general, not just anti-grinding when it benefits their bottom line.

I laughed so hard I may have an internal injury. When has GW ever been about anything but optional grind? Once you've completed the story, grinding titles and elite armor/weps is all that's left if you don't PVP, and that started with elite armor in Prophecies. The entire economy is based on the grind for ectos.

novawhiz · Mar 23, 2011, 10:02 PM // 22:02

And this isn't just about these new outrageous Mercenary Heroes. Its about Anet's whole new mindshift in recent days. They have stated that are going to continue this trend and continually add stuff like MH into the NCstore. They have even said they are considering making a new profession, availbale only to those that buy them through the ingame store.

Its just pathetic that Anet is now doing this to us just because our balls in a vice. I have lost so much respect for anet based on the things their employees have said and done in the past months. GW2 looks promising but if they are going to continue this trend, then im not going to waste my money on it just to be smacked in the face later on when they got me.

enter_the_zone · Mar 23, 2011, 10:04 PM // 22:04

I think paying for a new profession is reasonable, considering the work that will have to go into it. A hell of a lot more reasonable than $45 for MH. Besides, how exactly does a new profession disadvantage anyone who chooses not to buy it? Hell, of the 10 we have already, I play ranger and monk, and that's about it. Sin for farming, not that I can be bothered anymore. I'm hardly disadvantaged, I just can't be bothered to play the others.

ensoriki · Mar 23, 2011, 10:04 PM // 22:04

I don't see why people take this as an indication of Guild Wars 2, when the circumstances surrounding current Guild Wars 1 and future Guild Wars 2 are different.
GW 1 has a smaller team and the business model that came with the philosophy can't be supported anymore because the team that created the campaigns and expansions, are no longer there.

GW2 has that large team, so naturally for GW2 they can go ahead and make all the cosmetic useless crap I won't buy and then sell advantageous expansions/Campaigns that I will buy (EoTN/Factions/Nightfall), like they have in the past. GW1 live team and GW2 dev team aren't working on the same game, so why expect the same philosophy. The people with that philosophy everyones crying for are in GW2 not GW1.

Whats the point of saying "They broke their philosophy with mercs" when the business model was already screwed up when they said no more campaigns. From that point on as a smart business new revenue has to be generated and cosmetic stuff is only for people who want to play dress-up.
Bring on the new crap, all I have to say though is this crap is ridiculously expensive, they need to sell all this as a bundle.

Something called "Guild Wars expanded" or something, and as a bundle it functions as a mini-expansion.
Add BMP, Mercenaries, a character slot, a storage pane and some additional crap and sell it for 45$ as a bundle.
Instead of selling 8 Mercs for $45 these mofo's out of their mind, 8 mercs is purely cosmetic, wtf you gonna do with 8 mercs when you can only take 7 heroes with you? 1 Merc and 3 Mercs were advantageous.

Karate Jesus · Mar 23, 2011, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

I laughed so hard I may have an internal injury. When has GW ever been about anything but optional grind? Once you've completed the story, grinding titles and elite armor/weps is all that's left if you don't PVP, and that started with elite armor in Prophecies. The entire economy is based on the grind for ectos.

Don't you remember when the game came out? End-game was PvP. Titles and elite armor didn't matter.

One of the original selling points was that the game had minimal grinding. That was the whole purpose of fast traveling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Besides, how exactly does a new profession disadvantage anyone who chooses not to buy it?

Depends on how poorly they balance it. It could be a huge advantage in PvP or farming PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Something called "Guild Wars expanded" or something, and as a bundle it functions as a mini-expansion.
Add BMP, Mercenaries, a character slot, a storage pane and some additional crap and sell it for 45$ as a bundle.

That would sell like hotcakes. But let's be honest with ourselves, that would never happen. I have a feeling that they're making plenty off of the mercenary heroes. Half my guild bought them (or begged their parents to buy them).

Hardcore fans will pretty much buy whatever a game company puts out, regardless of how superfluous it is (shiny hands from the CE of Proph still go for like $300 on Ebay, don't they?) I think Anet could bottle and sell John Stumme's farts and they would run out of stock.

Ghull Ka · Mar 23, 2011, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

I'd be completely happy if my apprehensions about the direction of Anet's microtransactions were proven wrong.

It seems that these apprehensions are part and parcel of your opinion on the subject, and that they cannot be proven wrong until you change your attitude.

Or in other words, lighten up about it and you'll be happier.

ANet's vision is still intact. You buy the box, you can beat the game with nothing else other than the box you bought, and you can play online for free without ever being charged a subscription fee. This is true. Nobody in this thead can argue with this fact.

Folks can say that it's like a "stealthy subscription fee" or whinge about the "direction" that ANet is heading, but the above statement is still a stone-cold fact.

And anyhow, spending your day saying "omg what if something changes??" will not bring you joy, and isn't a very good attitude. GW is a video game you play for entertainment. Why fret so much about it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

They have even said they are considering making a new profession, availbale only to those that buy them through the ingame store.

Citation needed.

Seriously, if you're using something like this to doomsday the entire dev team into a pay-per-everything-you-do nightmare, the least you could do is give us a link. Or did I miss it?

enter_the_zone · Mar 23, 2011, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Don't you remember when the game came out? End-game was PvP. Titles and elite armor didn't matter.

One of the original selling points was that the game had minimal grinding. That was the whole purpose of fast traveling.

Yeah, I know that's how it was sold. But you were never getting Obby armor without grinding, so it's been there from the beginning, despite their bullshit. And really, do armor/titles matter now? Only if you let them, and only because there really is nothing else left to do in game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Depends on how poorly they balance it. It could be a huge advantage in PvP or farming PvE.

Yeah, so like every other profession then. Sin> Ranger, but you don't see me QQing because my main isn't an invulnerable ecto factory. Really, does anyone care about imba pve farming anymore?

Ghull Ka · Mar 23, 2011, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Yeah, I know that's how it was sold. But you were never getting Obby armor without grinding, so it's been there from the beginning, despite their bullshit.

Obby armor isn't required to beat the game, or to be successful in PvP or in groups with other people.

Some people want to grind for things. Some people expect every game they play to have something to grind for. Obby armor was there for them to grind if they CHOSE to. Many people chose not to. The people who ignored this grind were not disadvantaged.

So, when you use the word "bullshit" I'm not convinced you're using it properly.

Karate Jesus · Mar 23, 2011, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Citation needed.

Seriously, if you're using something like this to doomsday the entire dev team into a pay-per-everything-you-do nightmare, the least you could do is give us a link. Or did I miss it?

It's linked in my original post.....

Ghull Ka · Mar 23, 2011, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

It's linked in my original post.....

Ahh, I see it now. And I was able to put it in context, too. I'm still not recoiling in horror, though.

"I would say something like a new profession is fair game - so long as it's not empirically better than any other one that you could be."

VS

"They have even said they are considering making a new profession, availbale only to those that buy them through the ingame store."

It reads more logical when un-doomsday'd. Specifically, how can something that by definition must not be better than the built-in professions possibly be labeled by anyone as an "advantage"?

@enter_the_zone, below: Ahh, I get you now. That's my misunderstanding. Cheers.

enter_the_zone · Mar 23, 2011, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Obby armor isn't required to beat the game, or to be successful in PvP or in groups with other people.

Yeah, nor is any of the other crap we have to grind for, which is my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Some people want to grind for things. Some people expect every game they play to have something to grind for. Obby armor was there for them to grind if they CHOSE to. Many people chose not to. The people who ignored this grind were not disadvantaged.

Exactly, it's optional. All the grind in GW is entirely optional, but it's there if you want it. But you can't pretend it's not there and wasn't ever there just because it's not compulsory and you choose to ignore it.

The post I was originally replying to was alleging that

"Anet is supposedly anti-grinding in general, not just anti-grinding when it benefits their bottom line."

the allegation being that MH are somehow shortcutting grinding, when in fact, at best, they are making the completely optional non-compulsory grind that already exists, and has since lauch, very slightly faster.

As regards to bullshit, that depends on how you regard Anet's original statement that GW isn't about grinding. It wasn't intended that way, and it wasn't that way at launch, but I think you'll find that after 5 years, there isn't much else to do when you launch GW. It's grown to be that way, thereby making their original statement : bullshit.

novawhiz · Mar 23, 2011, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Citation needed.

lol alright. didnt realize my lit proff was on here.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...m_Thoughts_box

"In other words, I would say something like a new profession is fair game - so long as it's not empirically better than any other one that you could be."

and we know how great anet is at balancing professions....

Ghull Ka · Mar 23, 2011, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

lol alright. didnt realize my lit proff was on here.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...m_Thoughts_box

"In other words, I would say something like a new profession is fair game - so long as it's not empirically better than any other one that you could be."

and we know how great anet is at balancing professions....

Right.

So if it's nigh impossible to guarantee that this new profession would not be empirically better than any other one... then it follows that no such profession would ever be introduced.

And if one WAS introduced, it would, by definition, be required to be UNDERPOWERED compared to the standard professions.

And therefore, not an "advantage" at all. Just vanity.

"Hey guys, i unlocked the Ballerina profession and rolled one, lol"
"Great. Now log your monk and let's do this mission"

X Dr Pepper X · Mar 23, 2011, 10:51 PM // 22:51

The worst part about them considering adding a new profession is that they can't even balance the 10 that we already have.

PvE is torn asunder due to the stupid bullshit from the 10 current ones, and PvP is still not balanced in regards to Paragons.

Surely, we would expect them to prioritize fixing the existing professions over making a new one?

...unless the new one makes them more money...